Ché
Scrolling through Instagram is usually a mindless activity. Today it turned into something crazy. A post from Pigeons and Planes for their “Artist to Watch” shoutout on this artist from Brooklyn. The song they show is catchy, the production is crazy good, and the lyrics are great. It’s amazing, a new sound in rap. An amalgamation of sounds pieced together. I take a gander and find he’s released an album, so I give it a listen, and I’m blown away.
Introducing Ché (pronounced chay) Johnson. The eighteen year old rapper with a vision so creative, he’s like a painter with his words.
His recent album, Ghost Log Cabin, feels like a collage of different sounds pieced together. Aggressive and fast drums in the “Intro” track, while he paints the theme of the album over the drums. Bass-driven trap on “Louisville Slugger”, to the reflective and somber “Ayudame”. It’s a great listening experience, as what he wants you to feel and see, he tells in his words. The influence of Kendrick Lamar is definitely there, but with rock-sounding drum breaks, there’s more to his sound than just rap. He’s descriptive, and going back to that painter analogy, you can hear the masterpiece unfold in the soundscape he makes. But this extends into the visual side, too, with his music video for “Tiramisu”.
Che’s music video for “Tiramisu'' is creative. The tint of purple throughout the visuals adds to the aesthetic of his album presentation. The shots are creative and the way the song flows with the actions happening in the song are perfect. I won’t speak too much more on it because I want you to watch it yourself.
After the Pigeons and Planes shoutout, I had to nail an interview with Ché. I shoot out an email to the one in his Instagram and I trade email threads with his manager, who just so happens to be his mom. We set the date, I prepared the questions, and now we’re here. On the interview day.
I see Ché on the Zoom with his bedroom in the background. He’s sitting down and ready to go with a smile on his face. I introduce myself and he points out the Radiohead promo flats hanging on my wall, he says he digs them, and we begin.
To start, where are you from, where were you born, and all of that?
Brooklyn. Born and raised.
What sorts of things were you involved in creatively as a kid?
Creatively, growing up, the first thing I ever wanted to be was a writer. I wanted to write books. And I’ve been acting for as long as I can remember. My mom, as soon as she saw that I had a natural liking for the arts, put me in tons of programs. Whether it was after-school drama club, or writer’s club for the summer, acting, intensives. She saw that I liked that kind of stuff.
Obviously, since you’re a musician, what was the first album you remember listening to or purchasing?
Okay, the first album I remember really listening to-- I had grown up around music, my mom is a really big musichead. My stepdad’s a really big musichead. Everybody in my family really likes music. I feel like in my younger years, it really washed over me, because I wasn’t really paying attention to music that much, in the technical aspect of it. I think the first record that really impacted me was good kid, m.a.a.d city. I cite that album as like the reason why I wanted to make music. I remember listening to “Money Trees” in a car and just thinking to myself: “This is crazy. What’s happening right now?”
He laughs.
That’s my earliest memory of me actually absorbing music.
Yeah, I think we’re about the same age, so we’re both probably eighteen?
I just turned eighteen.
Same here. I just turned eighteen.
When’s your birthday?
May, May 23.
Ah, I’m July.
Oh, no way. That’s crazy.
I was just thinking. A few weeks ago, I was in LA, and in the Cali area. The amount of times I heard “Money Trees” blasting out of a car was hilarious.
It’s a perfect song. It’s a perfect song.
It is, especially to drive to.
For sure. With the windows down on a hot, hot day. It’s a perfect song.
We laugh, then continue.
What sparked your interest in creating music?
So, I listened to good kid, m.a.a.d city-- it was a group of albums that inspired me. good kid, m.a.a.d city was the primary one, Based on a T.R.U Story [by] 2 Chainz, Yeezus, and Nothing Was the Same [by] Drake. Those three records. I heard them all at one time, and I was like, “Oh my god, this is crazy.” The storytelling aspect of good kid, m.a.a.d city and the wordplay of Based on a T.R.U Story really stuck out to me.
Then I got into battle rap, around the same time. Listening, not participating, I’m too sensitive to battle rap. I’ll cry and get into a fist fight. But I was really getting into battle rap. So I was watching YouTube videos on it, and in my room, when I had nothing to do, I’d mess around and try to make my own verses. Aimed at no one in particular, just empty disses, I guess. Slowly, I was like, “This is cool”. I’d find a YouTube beat, try and rap to that. Like I said earlier, I wanted to be an author, so that natural desire to tell stories translated to music, and I was like, “I’m going to try and do this.” I messed around with making music, but never really took it seriously until freshman year of high school, where I decided I would really spend time in making a project.
What was that first project?
It’s not-- It never made it. Never saw the light of day. It was four songs, five songs long, it was horrendous. It didn’t even have a name. It was just me finding my voice. I tell people I was mimicking everything I was hearing at the time. There was a song that sounded like a Chance [the Rapper] song. There was a song that sounded like a [A$AP] Rocky song. There was a Tyler [the Creator] song on the record. It was me just trying to figure out who I am. Even now, I’m still finding who I am artistically and what my voice is, but back then, it was really learning how to walk.
So going into Ghost Log Cabin, what was the inspiration behind it? How did it come to be?
Inspiration behind Ghost Log. It’s difficult. Ghost Log took two years to make. One of the reasons was just getting my mental health right, then last year was just cranking it out, going full steam ahead on making music for the record. But I would say, of course Kendrick [Lamar] is an inspiration for the record. [Childish] Gambino is an inspiration for the record. I was listening to rock, so songs like “August” that have drum solos and rock-ish elements, like on “Ayudame”, the drums on that. My surroundings. Everything I was listening to at the time. Everything that I was experiencing personally was an inspiration for the record. Going to therapy consistently helped me in making the music for the record. That was a major inspiration. Going to therapy, reading a lot more.
A screenshot of Ché’s music video for “Tiramisu”. Directed by Matt Gerety (@d1gitalfacelift) and Ché.
I have to ask, what’s your favorite song on the album?
It changes so frequently. I was telling people two, three weeks ago that “August” was my favorite one on the record. I think it’s the most well written song...Recently, I was just sitting down- and I don’t like listening to my own music. The minute it’s out? Bang. Done. Don’t play it for me again. But I was listening to “Ayudame” after someone had made a comment, I forget what it was, but it was the “I like when you did this in the song.” I was listening to “Ayudame” again, and I really fell in love with that track all over. So I’m saying, right now, today, it’s “Ayudame”.
I was listening pretty much all this last week, and the wordplay and the rhyme scheme you do on “Lemme Try” just blew me away. The “synonyms of innocence” part. I just had to pause and go, “He really just rhymed all that in a few bars,” and it just blew me away.
He smiles.
Wow. That’s crazy. Thank you. That song’s like, three years old, man.
Really? Damn!
I wrote all that music in 2015, 2016? So it’s been a minute since I released music that was current, that was me right now.
I’m really glad you liked that. I was listening to a lot of Joey [Bada$$] at that time. I wanted to make like-- I listen to rapper's best songs and go “I could outdo that”. I could out-spit this. I can’t remember what verse it was, but he was doing a lot of the alliteration, the words starting with the same kind of sound, so I wanted to outdo that one. That’s how “Lemme Try” came about.
That’s awesome.
You got your music video for “Tiramisu”. How did the idea for that start and what was it like filming it?
Me, and the person that directed it alongside me, my friend Matt, just sat down on Zoom and phone calls for two weeks, storyboarding the whole thing. Coming up with the concept. The story of Ghost Log Cabin. Experiencing childhood trauma and the shit that comes along with that. Then leaving that situation, regardless, you still have stuff that sticks with you. That’s the whole point of the “Tiramisu” song and video. To kind of show those consistent things playing a part in your life. Those thought patterns chasing you, as you get older, and as you get away from whatever traumatic experience troubles you from a younger age.
So we came up with the idea, the basic idea. We storyboarded the whole thing, got my homies to do the goon masks and everything. It kind of took on a mind of its own when we started shooting. We came up with so many cool ideas that went off the actual path of the storyboard. During the editing process, the themes that we had come up with initially, were cemented and highlighted even further.
Obviously, I wanna touch on that Pigeons and Planes shoutout. How did that help your growth in the past few weeks?
It’s been amazing. I’m extremely grateful and really overjoyed. I remember being a super young kid, I don’t even know where I was, but watching Lil B perform live on the Pigeons and Planes YouTube channel when I was super into Lil B. I’m still super heavy into Lil B, but I remember watching that and going, “Damn, I wanna be on Pigeons and Planes one day. And to get that shoutout, it means so much to me. It’s been so important to my growth.
I’ve been getting hit up from so many different producers, people like you that wanna do interviews, blogs, new followers, new “fans”. And as someone who worked with a producer, the guy I made all of Ghost Log Cabin with has moved to LA, so there’s not consistent communication or consistent studio sessions. To get a look, like the Pigeons and Planes look, to have new producers hit me up and make studio sessions in New York, et cetera and et cetera. It’s really awesome.
With all those producers and people wanting to work, what’s next for you?
I wanna make as much music as possible. I’m always listening to different stuff, trying to incorporate that within my own art. I wanna get another something out for the public in the fall. A single, or two songs. Two songs and a video. Just something, you know? I love making music and I love releasing music. I love making videos. Just the whole artistic process that goes into making art. I really enjoy it. So, more music. As soon as possible.
Hopefully I’ll be flying out to LA soon to work with more producers. I may have the ability to do another live show around Thanksgiving time. Since I just did my first live show recently on August 4th at Zone One. It was incredible. We sold it out. So yeah, more music.
I was going to ask about that show. I saw that it happened and I’m in Colorado, so I can’t do much of getting out there.
It’s a little difficult getting out here from Colorado.
We laugh.
The show was great.
Who are some dream collaborators you’d like to work with someday?
Kendrick, of course. Will Toledo of Car Seat Headrest. I just want to sit down and just listen to him talk.
He laughs.
His songwriting ability is crazy. The first thing I listen to when I listen to music is how this person is talking. What are they saying? Twin Fantasy and Nervous Young Man are my favorite records by him. By them, I should say. His ability to make you feel like you’re a close friend of his, without ever meeting him, is incredible. So Will Toledo, all of Car Seat Headrest.
Lemme look at my vinyl.
He stands up and goes off camera, to what you can imagine is a shelf with all his vinyl on it. He looks giddy getting up out of his chair to dig through his collection. He’d pull out a record and then look back at me after he found one he liked.
Shade. Kelis. Childish Gambino. Pharrell. Jay-Z. Jay-Z is high up there, and I mean high high on that list. And then, like, Lil B. It’d be so cool to work with all of the Flint, Michigan rap scene that I love. I don’t really make music like that, but the style, or a style clash of those two, would be really dope.
That’d be awesome.
I wanna work with everyone. Tyler, of course. People like A$AP Rocky, of course. Everyone. I think everyone offers so much musically. Like I said before, I like making weird stuff. I like mixing up stuff.
Last question, for those creating music, or getting into other creative endeavors, what pieces of advice do you have for them?
Make what you wanna make. Make what you want to make. Make what you want to hear. Make what you enjoy. Do it, and make sure you’re having fun. This is a fun experience. You’re creating art, you should feel fulfilled while doing it. There are a lot of moments in music creation that can sap you of your happiness, that can sap you of your joy. You can’t let it happen. Dealing with everything you have to deal with when you release music. Just as there are many opportunities, you’re going to experience a lot of bullshit.
My biggest piece of advice would be make sure you keep it fun. Make sure you keep it pure. Make sure you keep it so that way it still means something to you. One day, I could be bigger than Travis Scott and I wake up and say “this isn’t fulfilling me spiritually anymore”. That’s like a job at that point. I could be working at a coffee shop and it’d give me the same spiritual fulfilment as making music, in this alternate reality.
So, make what you want to make. Make what you want to hear. Make sure to keep it fun. Keep it fresh. Don’t listen to anybody. Of course, don’t be hardheaded, but people are going to talk shit. People are going to be talking shit. There’ll be plenty of individuals that say “let’s do a feature”, x, y, z, and then just nothing. They’re not trying to spend time with you. I’m grateful I stayed the course, because now this project’s out and it’s getting attention. It’s bubbling.
Staying the course.
I then tell him about my last interview with Daniel Leka, and how a piece of what he said to me has stuck with me. Making what you want to make. Don’t make what the public wants to hear. Make what you want and someone will grasp onto that.
Look at someone like Tyler, or look at someone like Kanye, who have gotten trashed for making records that they love. Like Cherry Bomb, or when Yeezus first came out. People hated Yeezus. I was looking at an interview Kanye did with The Breakfast Club. Charlamagne tha God was like, “this album’s trash”, and [Kanye’s] like, “okay”. You look back, and Yeezus is one of my favorite Kanye records. And earlier when Cherry Bomb came out, people hated Cherry Bomb. Now, you kind of see it flip. Now a lot of people love Cherry Bomb.
So making music for yourself. I honestly think when you’re authentically you and you give it to the public, regardless of whether their reaction is “this fucking sucks”, sooner or later, they’re going to come around. At least a pocket of them. Because it’s honesty. It’s raw. Obviously, if it’s a manufactured album, no one’s going to care about it. You can only get away with that for so long until people start to sense that it’s manufactured. But if you give someone a piece of you, a real, living, breathing chunk of yourself- whether or not people think it’s weird, or awkward, or unorthodox- sooner or later, people are going to come around to it.
“Make what you want to make. Make what you want to hear. Make what you enjoy. Do it, and make sure you’re having fun.”
I love your mindset, so.
He smiles and laughs.
Thank you. This was so fun.
We end the conversation there, say our goodbyes, and hang up the call. Another interview where I whisper “that was awesome” to myself afterwards.
Thank you to Ché for taking the time to talk with me. Also thank you to Ché’s manager/mom, Jeanette, for managing the time to make this conversation work. It was an honor to speak with such a creatively active mindset, who just so happens to be the same age as me.
You can find Ché’s Ghost Log Cabin wherever you stream music. He’s on Instagram as @okaychee.
Thanks for reading this, and I hope you enjoyed reading this as much as I did talking with Ché. Also Pigeons & Planes, if you need another writer/interviewer, I’m your guy.
-M
